Motivation

You ever say you’ll do something but then realize you’ve obligated yourself to not the best idea? Well, I said I’d make a post of a too long comment in L’s blog last week, and I did. As I’ve said before, I hope to stay away from arguing the truth of anyone’s religion here. From much experience with numerous faiths and some very good people, I know that goes nowhere and upsets many. I’ll not do that here either, but I will be discussing religious motivation and I’m sure I’ll hit many of the same nerves. That said, fair warning and all: (yes, this was written before my last post and resulting comments, and now I don’t feel so hesitant ;-))

Numerous times now I’ve heard the notion that remaining in the LDS church (or any church really) as a gay believer constitutes a denial of a desire. That part is true; if you’re gay and deny yourself coupling with a person matching your orientation, you’re sacrificing something.

Often though that something is debased, as a merely a corrupt physical pleasure. This is very understandable, as it helps keep resolve, but I does set me off. Our opponents do it all the time, only look at gays and think sex, sexual desire, physical pleasure, and so on. To a gay guy who sometimes forgets the physical aspects and yet is absolutely head-over-heals in love, I find this ignoring of the mental aspects of orientation both factually wrong and demeaning. But, eh, what you gonna do? It’s often not meant and, sure, I know it.

It’s the second part of this reasoning that really gets to me: that to be an active gay man a person would be sacrificing less or no desires, even those often considered corrupt physical desires. In truth, there’d be far more motivation, physical or otherwise, in obeying, in not being actively gay, if I believed such dictates actually came from God. I mean, for most Protestants, to avoid burning in Hell and an eternity in an unimaginably pleasurable heaven are both very simple and potent motivations for humans, and inflated into infinity. For faithful LDS, being with God, and becoming a God with families still around isn’t bad either. People don’t want pain, they want to live forever, they want their families, they want power, meaning, questions answered… These are all basic human desires satisfied by ideas of Heaven and threatened by ideas of Hell, and most far more potent and visceral than the desire for any sort of sex or coupling.

In fact, if I truly believe that I’d be made heterosexual in an afterlife, then even the hope to best fulfill such mental and sexual desire is moved to the other side of the equation, save for a sliver of this time in a hoped-for eternity. There’s no contest, and for good reason.

I mean, how would a religion’s faith and love of its God fare if, to keep it as God wants in this hypothetical, you’d be placed in Hell (not LDS Hell, Baptist Hell :-)), and all the doubters go to heaven with their family and become Gods? It would fail. Of course all organizations using these tools both downplay and put such up front, as it’s more respectable, dependable, and right to do right without coercion, but the coercion and motivation is undeniably there and used.

Maybe the LDS faith is true, maybe the Zoroastrians, but at least all but one of such organizations, those claiming to have the best path to truth, are using such to control people without such a path behind their promises, knowing people act on and are motivated by what they’re convinced to believe will happen, not on actual future rewards or punishments. And it’s clear many people, once they believe and submit to each Gods’ will with these motivations, will defend that to no end. It works. Many are loyal to their different faiths and build belief in them strong with supposed miracles and unassailable personal experiences, sometimes even to the point of giving their lives (or their neighbors’ lives…). Harsh, sure, but either the AUM in the Japanese subway attack or Eric Rudolph, blowing up gay clubs and Olympic parties, are in the wrong when acting on such strong faith. Though they show more dedication and personal sacrifice to their particular idea of the supernatural than most, at least one set of thinking is wrong and won't be rewarded as expected. But they both have strong and very real motivations there that we all--religious, agnostic, or atheist--must take seriously. It’s simply not only a problem for gay people with regards to the far more cultivated and safe religious ideas.

Certainly, though, I must give the disclaimer that, more often than not, religious leaders use such motivations believing it themselves and for the betterment of humanity. It’s certainly not all Jonestowns. For instance, they give the believing amoral thief, who’d otherwise steal, something to consider above being caught. It’s just, when you’re playing with such strong human motivations, it can and does go wrong, and otherwise good people do end up doing evil, as demonstrated in many historical examples.

Finally on this topic, it’s true people such as myself don’t believe we’re sacrificing such supernaturally; we ain’t stupid either ;-). But there are other this-world sacrifices that need consideration. They may even keep an amoral atheist unwilling to sacrifice such for innate human coupling. I went over some of them here, but they can range from physical threats, to health insurance, to simple added complexity. On the other hand, there are gains certainly above meeting your orientation, such as giving your partner the knowledge that you are attracted to them in that way, making it easier for gay kids generations later, and to be able to share the comfort that comes with not fighting yourself with those who love you. In short, there are base and high-minded pleasures and pains on both sides. Can we meet at that point?

In the end, I really don’t want to turn this argument back around and demean the other side for wanting pleasures. What use is that? But it’s not something one can hide; such motivations are there and are very compelling. I do read the hopes of believers in many different religions and the promises of their texts, you know :-). The rewards are at least anticipated, wanted, and a strong motivation, and it should be known to claim otherwise trips the mental alarms. I just want to stop the weapon’s use by the other camp.

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Now, to my pointing of this out, my favorite pro/an-tagonist ;-), reacted with “The idea that following God is always fundamentally selfish is a narrow one. ”, here.

I’d not say following a God, or any other human action is always selfish, as most think of the word.

Forget all the above, and say the motivation is love of a God alone. If He wanted, you could honestly tell me you’d lose your family and writhe in an eternal Hell for that love, just because you think it would please Him and thus be good by a mystery you don’t understand by your limited mortal mind. I’m sure there are people in all religions who have come to feel they'd do that. Off the top of my head comes to mind the famous picture of the Buddhist monk, setting himself on fire (Though sure, Buddhism’s “God” is a bit complicated ;-)). So let’s just say the 100% only motivation people feel is the love for this omnipotent being. They’ve chosen to love this particular being for no other reason than to love Him, regardless of what He does, not for Heaven, not Hell, not by appreciation for supposed prior rewards, not because they think he gave them life or anything else. They just love Him.

On much smaller scales, people do this all the time; it's a common motivation, and we’d never call it selfishness. It is in fact a saving grace of humanity, but it can still be misused and it’s still based on pretty common and understandable human desires. A person simply cannot act unless they first experience a desire to act.

It’s just, in this case, what you want is a function of the pleasure of another. Though, as with any choice, there may be pain associated with it, it pleases you when they are pleased. This is part of the state of being in love, and if I were to complicate it by claiming I’m somehow selflessly doing what I don’t want, what I’m not most compelled to do, when feeling love, to me, that denies the obvious, etherealizes my will, and undermines the love.

Can you imagine telling your child you don’t want to be up at night rubbing his fevered back, but you still do it for some sort of brave self-denial? No, besides upsetting to the child that’d not be true. I do it because that’s who I am; it’s what I do, what I’m built to do by very basic insistent and ingrained rules of behavior and he should not doubt that. It’s not some mystery of will, of an action that’s somehow neither caused nor uncaused; it’s how I, his father, work, dependable like clockwork. As long as I exist, I’ll want to rub his fevered back, to comfort him, even if that comes with pain. I’d literally give them my life, if it somehow came to that, and I’d want to do it, and it would please me most, and I’d want them to be assured of that.

It’s can be a boost to our self impression and a tool of manipulating the will of those not so inclined to pose ourselves as self-sacrificing, a master of will doing what we don’t want, and so on, when we act for motivations such as love (odd though how often the same people describe the very real pleasures of giving and loving). But there is also real strength in what I see as the actuality, in admitting that you really want to suffer a loss, for love, for someone else; it’s a reward in itself. People go to jobs they hate, parents stay up all night with sick children, friends move heavy furniture and drive friends to the airport :-), and some devout followers of various gods will even subject themselves to the sort of physical and mental pain most humans will never know, for love of their God, even if you or I don’t believe in their God or Gods, and even if we’re right. People suffer pains all the time for the incomparable joys of love. Crazy human behavior, huh? ;-)

On the Scales

I need some rehashing on this. I started my online life before the term “blog” existed, and maybe don’t understand the concept :-).

So, after 2 months:

Why Blog?

1. For the direct pleasure. I like to write, particularly as a counterbalance to the regimented type of most journal writing. It’s creative, a drug for most human minds, and putting it out there can stroke the ego (or beat it down :-)).

2. For the same reason my one sisters has had a trainer for 5 years although she could just go and work out on her own: the appointment. After a while of neglect, a public site assumes to be updated, becomes an obligation, not “free time” to be spent of all those many other things. And I want to have a written record of this time. It’s certainly more important than tighter abs :-). I want to be able to go back, and read through it; I want the twins to have a record from where their memory was sketchy and from my perspective, of their lives and today’s politics. The blog motivates.

3. To change minds, and [teary sanctimonious voice]help people[/teary sanctimonious voice]. Too much of #1 and #2 and I start feeling negligent, and I’ve shied away from it; there are wrongs to right, underbellies to defend, and damsels in need of de-distressing. This is about 90% of my history on the web, and there have been great times. But, on the negative end, I ended up with hostility from people I’d never care to meet, sadness for people in immense tragedy, and regret for having to be contrary to foes I came to respect. So:

Why not blog?
4. Threat of harm. I’ve not been upfront with this one, as it’s probably not the best thing to be up front about, but this is the best reasons to not blog. I’m fine with having my anti-gay enemies, pro-gay enemies, and astrologist enemies ;-). But I’ve been threatened enough times, online, in public, to know I don’t like what it does to me, let alone the slim chance it’s backed by action. It brings anxiety, and it gives me that willing-to-do-anything-to-protect viciousness. I’m doubly dehumanized, once by my foe and then by myself.

Each post gives me the feeling this issue is again approaching, closer and closer.

5. Time.

6. From my last site I learned it’s hard on the emotions to come to like people who’d feel they must hurt you, or your family, or a kid in your same shoes, when it seems they’re willing to do that for the pleasure they find in what you see as hope. Thanks to some of those old friends, though, I know they struggle similarly. It just ain’t easy socializing, even when that’s the reflex.

7. Politics. They can taint everything. I want #1 and #2, but I want that #3 reason too, and so do others. No matter how forthcoming I am, it’s a controversial topic, and people will doubt me because it’s useful for them to do so. In a way, L pointed this out, and it’s true. On the other end, I can’t deny the motive to keep people from thinking poorly of us exists.

So why should anyone trust that I’m not, say, an 18-year-old, left-handed, prostitute? I don’t know. Maybe, for the same reason I trust gays married to straight women when they write that their marriages are happy, and they aren’t a psychological mess, despite my political interests. Their stories seem hard to fake, and soul rotting if they were faked. At least we know where we stand and 100% know those who doubt it are the ones with the problem.

But it's disconcerting to write about what I want, about the more personal things, thinking about the politics and suspicion hanging over it all. It’s a good reason to keep a journal instead.

Now, if only these were pebbles of quantifiable weight to be placed on the scales…

The Eraser

I was going to hold off on this, but fear I’ll forget the mood, and the moral if I don’t get it out (particularly where I can be as longwinded as I want :-)).

Ever had a series of events that just made you feel like coincidence was aiming to drive home a point? That’s how I feel right now.

After these comments in Mr. Galt’s blog, the going over my feelings on Fred, a dead “friend” and, oddly enough, a dead coyote (Oh, I’ll make the connection… :-)), I get into my car to go to work and the midst of this chorus starts up on my CD player:

“The more you try to erase me
The more that I appear
The more you try the eraser
The more that you appear ”

Futility. It seemed appropriate (the rest of the lyrics are less relatable, but it could be done and I’d dare not interpret :-)).

So, is that me again? Tracking through the snow, erasing paw print after paw print, addressing falsehood after insult, helping one gay kid only for another to take his place. Is it that the closer I get, the more prints there’ll be to follow, as the animal keeps just into the next shelter of trees? Does the metaphor hold in the fact that the further I chase the wolf from my door, the further I get from home, from those who need me? I hope not; I do fear it, though.

Maybe, if I just stopped the hunt, paused in the silence for a while, went home, and waited… Well, might he just lie down in our backyard someday, and I’ll find him there, tell my boy’s not to worry, everything will be okay, and, just like that, it’s over? Maybe.

There’s this problem, this monstrous and sad problem. You all know it. I’m not talking about people; it’s an intangible beast, built through so much history. I see it wreaking tragedy and lurking in borderlands of so many lives, from gay men to un-gay men to the people who love them, and I’ve been trying to help fix it for just under half my life, even when I knew I was in an unfixable instance of it.

Today, I do see it healing, and quickly. But how? Is it from the hunt? Instead, I’m wondering now if the end to this animal may be the ever-tightening snare of the reality in our own backyards, in mundane everyday existence.
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Gee, I hope I didn’t stretch that connection until it broke :-). Forgive the symbolism, I just found it apt for my mood, and that's what I'm feeling.

Anyway, that said, let me at least respond to Change1996, and I’ll ruminate on the above some more; it’s just an off-the-cuff observation…

I’ll take some of those questions as rhetorical, Change, but no, I’ve not heard of some of what you describe in the gay community (Unless a “dark room” has to do with photography :-)).

As for your experience, you may not want empathy, but, again, what can you expect? That’s horrible, vile. I would hope you could press charges, but understand it’s not that easy.

You ask “So what do you suggest for your defence.”

I suggest nothing. It’s not my defense to give, and those who best could give it can’t either, because there is none for such actions.

In fact, I’d think what I do lessens the chance of a repeat of your experience, but the whole point is that it’s not my place to defend nor can I be responsible for the choices of others. No matter how much anyone may think it could help, it's the wrong solution. I think you know that’s a truth of ethics, but I understand that trauma can make the easy difficult. I know it took me many many years to quit assuming every LDS person, not already in my life, was a cruel homophobe who, to save their shame, would coldly disown their gay children and leave them with no support or love. I admit that’s a reflex I still fight. I’d hope you could also try to stop generalizing regarding gays as well, but it is understandable with your experience.

“I have experienced some heartbreaks that can not convince me that this could even be an option even if god WOULD allow it.”

That’s exactly why I support people in your shoes to never act out on their orientation.

It’s also why I can’t keep up my anger. If not for Fred, certainly not for you, Change ;-). It’s that bolt of malevolence striking from the tree line to harm those I love that gets me up in arms. That was you. When I see there’s a person there, with their own reasons… It makes most every underserved insult and wrong understandable. You sapped the ire right out of me; as I wrote, nature just swallows that whole.

"So,why don't you stay in your gay hole and be happy without trying to defend yourself for the wrong that you are doing. "

Again, probably a rhetorical question… But I, like you, know what’s wrong, and am compelled to speak up when I see it. Unfortunately, that pits us against each other. I mean, are you telling me you’d just let folk insult your family and kids, tell lies, and use those stereotypes to harm them legally? You’d not say anything, just stay in your “gay hole” and be happy (what a funny way of insulting :-))?

If I could ignore what I imagine your intentions to be, I would make the same claim regarding your life, to keep to yourself and stop defending the wrong you're doing, but I’m betting you think you’re in the right. For that alone, you deserve an audience.

But, as I began this post, you may have a point. I’ve been trying to fix it; it’s my habit. I keep the wolf from the door; that’s one large way in which I’ve come to define myself, and oddly it’s a chorus in the same voice. I’m out to keep experiences like yours from happening. I keep awake at my post, sometime literally, and keep my family safe. I’ve been at it a long time. Maybe too long; maybe I should stop tracking, defend only the home turf, and let it come to me. I don’t know.

“I'm just showing you were something really innocently looking lead ME!!!!!!!!!”

Well, it shouldn’t be innocent looking; all sex can be deadly dangerous, and, because of our position, sex with the average gay man can be even more so. Nevertheless, it lead me worlds away from your experience, and I can be nothing but grateful for being gay. I can’t even really regret the tough times; they too had their odd way of leading me to happiness.

A long while ago, I wrote a bunch of advice (in a humble manner, of course ;-)) I’d give to those just coming out and have been waiting for an appropriate time to post it. I’ll post it this week, and would appreciate your input.

“And no, I want to be rude on this one.”

Congratulations then ;-). Look, Chris is right. No one gets anywhere without civil dialogue; it’s something I forget too.

“What do you call this in the gay world,self inflicted rape?”

When a person sexually violates you through coercion or force? I call it rape. I call it rape too even if they drug a person to make them more agreeable to sex they’d not otherwise agree to. The punishment for, say, drinking is no more justly rape than it would be the punishment for wearing a miniskirt for straight women, and it’s unfortunate you’d expect such a reaction.

I’ve only felt threatened with rape, just once, and that was more than enough to leave an impression. I hope you can heal.

Now, the “gay world”? I’d find it funny that you’d think I’d fit in the world you’re likely considering if the topic wasn’t so serious, but, still, I’ve never heard that term before, in the gay or straight world.
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Anyway… one more paw print. What’s to be done? Should we fight, Change1996? Should we let all our commonality go?

I’m sure we could both be vicious for some very good reasons, and get nowhere.

Repairing the past:

History, Part 3 of 8

Slowly I began to notice something was wrong with the youth group; I had been phenomenally fortunate. Many were there secretly. Their parents had no idea, and, when some found out, the kids would often just disappear, sometimes moved to relatives in rural areas. Some were homeless, runaways or kicked out. In short, most all of them were hurt deeply by the people they loved most and it showed, whereas my primary antagonist was myself.

I was attracted to one kid, got to know him a bit and he asked me out. I consider him my first real date (the rest being luckless girls, who could never figure out why I’d no interest in them). Over the course of a couple conversations I came to find he’d been living alone in the city for a couple years, kicked out of his small-town home when his LDS parents found he was gay--tough “love”.

He was, of course, damaged.

To my great surprise, by about the 3rd official date, he started pushing me for sex, and I kept resisting. People had sex with those they were just dating? 3 dates?!

When I came out, my parents accepted me, but still expected me to be sexually chaste, as did I. But I didn’t get it. He was a kid starved of affection and he’d settle for its easy imitation if he could get it. And why not? He was a damned perverted addict anyway, right? He was ejected from his family, from his culture. He took his LDS morals as a package deal and if that package said he couldn’t follow his attraction, he’d let it all go.

Finally, one night I went to pick him up from his tiny apartment, and he was clearly drunk. He made another advance. At the very second he could tell I was rejecting it once more he flipped out; started crying. He began telling me how he hated his parents and his life; he told me about all the men he’d been with. He resented his church, blaming them for his parent’s actions. He went out at night looking for closeted LDS “family” men, even bishops, for quick sex. He told me how it never satisfied him, and what some of those “family” men did to him, seemingly enjoying my shock.

And I was shocked; I’d no idea the world had such a side.

Just as I started to ask why was he telling me this, he turned on me. He told me he’d “wasted” so much time on me when all he wanted now was sex; he knew men couldn’t love each other. He’d apologize and lash out in the same breath. He basically said he wanted to do to me, the naive kid from a loving home, what had been done to him. He never said “AIDS” but I thought it was pretty clear that was part of it.

His life had become an act of revenge.

I quickly went from sympathy to fear and tried to leave. He tried to stop me. Even though I was more than able to overpower him, there is little like feeling that someone wants to rape you. As I squeezed by him in his cramped apartment, he grabbed my neck and gave me a full kiss on the mouth. I cringed; my first ‘real’ kiss. He smiled a drunken smile, and I swear I could see a bit of blood on his teeth.

I ran, and never talked to him again; I lost my nerve. Is that what being gay means? Do I have AIDS now? From a kiss (Yes, I was young and stupid)?! Did all my new gay friends live like that?

I didn’t return to the Stonewall Center or interact with another gay person that entire summer and into the fall. About 6 months later I gathered the courage to return. I was isolated again and thought I could put this episode behind me. But I quickly learned I could not.

I entered the Youth Group meeting much the same way I did when I first found it, meek and nervous. In came the kids. Gratefully, my “friend” was not among them. I found some familiar faces and asked about him. I was told he slit his wrists and ankles about a week after that night. I never told any of them what had happened.

I was floored; I hadn’t considered that being a possibility. But, to my shame, I wasn’t really surprised.

I knew he was the most psychologically damaged person I’d ever met. He did all but say “I want to die.” Today I know I should have known, and there were steps I could have taken to ensure he’d be okay. But I didn’t take them. I instead went home and felt scared, insulted, hurt, and sorry for myself for being gay, once more.

I have tried to think, “I was just a kid. He was trying to hurt me. He was sick. His parents and religion did it to him.” Still, none of that really matters. One group may have made the first horrible choice by tossing a kid, alone into a city, but then another group, my group, made the horrible choice of not catching him. To this day this event causes me make enemies in both groups.

That is the most significant failing of my life. Over the years I’ve tried to make up for it, with my involvement in the gay community and helping others going through that tough time, but it’s never enough to make me feel better about it, because I will never help that kid and it will never change what I did (or didn’t do) that night.

At the least, the obsession to repair the past can motivate you into helping others, even if your deeds will never do what you reflexively hope them to do, and actually repair the past.

It's sadly ironic that my friend was trying to do the same futile thing, along with so many other gays akin to him out there.

Back online again [nervous sigh].

I’ve had two sites in my life exploring topics of religion, politics, homosexuality, and so on. I got rid of the first when I couldn’t agree with myself anymore, and got rid of the second when I started getting death threats.

In short, I’ve yet to do anything online more personal than buy a book that didn’t end in regret a year or so down the line (and I’ve regretted some of the books too). So, of course, another go at it then, with full knowledge I’ll regret it :-)…


I’ve been inspired to blog by, of all groups, the LDS gays married to straight women, featured here. I’ve very much appreciated their stories, and have learned a lot from them.

There are other reasons, of course, the old reasons. I hope to encourage young gays to look beyond the stereotype of the “gay lifestyle” presented to them by the left and the right. I also want those who can’t understand our family to have the opportunity to do so. Finally, I want to keep this as a bit of a record and place to collect my thoughts.

I’m certainly nowhere near a writer; I’m a scientist, and promise no skillful language, spelling, or grammar. I’m also a bit longwinded. To indulge this (and allay it in future posts), I’ll start by posting my relevant background.